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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 8:10 PM -
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Fri, September 14, 2007 - 8:03 PMUm, okay, I'll bite:
this is a video of vaudeville footage from the 1930's. Yes, it is racist in nature. Yes, that sucks. Yes, sadly, *a lot* of acts were exploitative and demeaning -- I mean, hell, ever see any blackface acts? Pretty much every race, and often the female gender to boot, suffered during that time for the sake of entertainment.
But, um...this is from over 60 years ago. The world has changed a lot. Things are still not perfect, but this is footage from a *very*, utterly different time than 2007.
And, the kicker is, you gave us zero commentary, just a link to a "racsist [sic] vaudeville bit".
So: what's your point? Seriously...are you posting this 'cause you like it? hate it? Want to start a discussion around race or other social inequality issues in entertainment? Why do you want us to watch this? Speak up ... please.... -
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Fri, September 14, 2007 - 9:30 PMI wondered the same thing. Why was this posted with no commentary... what is the point?
Well said, dyslexia. -
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Sat, September 15, 2007 - 11:55 AMI am sorry that the MArquee advertises something different then you see onstage.
You caught me
it is a troll post.
i like to talk about Vaudeville, but if you put something up like "Hey check this olde juggling routine".
No one would talk back.
i guess you could say that putting "Racism" into the subject line is too much Bally, not enuf substance.
But I would say it reflects the audiences dispositions. This tribe lies dormant most of
the time, and Vaudeville is on the uprise. A phoenix, if you will. With strong participants and
good venues. We even have motivated promoters who want to share the boxoffice with us (after the nut).
we have a million things going for us. and it would be nice to talk about that.
I have another troll statement for youse guys.
Drag Queens and Genderbenders kept Vaudeville alive and thriving for us. Some could say
that they kept it fresh and au courant. A good drag show is the best source of ideas (for me -I am a thief) -
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Unsu...
Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Wed, September 19, 2007 - 9:30 PMmmmmmm..........
I recently saw a circus where they did Chinese acrobatics and plate balancing.......
so.....
was this bit really "that racist"?
I like to look at it from the entertainer's view point.....
they were getting gigs... you gotta do what sells, after all!
and yes.... minstrel was the most popular of American entertainment for 100 years....
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Thu, September 20, 2007 - 11:18 AMI guess you are right it isnt racist.
it is just a white guy with some tape on his eyes.
dressed as a coolie.
If I remember right, the instrument he is playing is not 100% Chinese.
Speaking of doing what sell's, do you know the generic name for this type of act?
There was a specific place in the program for it. The booking sequence was formulaic, ancient.
This type of act was where? After the magician/juggler? Before the kid act? after the dog/animal act?
The thing about minstrel shows,
ohh, maybe i shouldnt even get started.
the informed crowd on this tribe probably wouldnt view Minstrel or blackface
as racism. -
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Thu, September 20, 2007 - 11:57 AMIf someone were to bust out with "Oh Give Me that Watermelon" in the middle of Times Square in full blackface and minstrel regalia? Yes, that probably would be viewed as a racist act. The intention would most visibly be an intentional racial provocation.
The acts as a whole? It's like saying "this shovel is racist". It's possible to learn from the past and preserve it without glorying in the antisocial aspects of the whole. Foster wrote great material, much of it *not* "racially sensitive". In academic settings (or even just in non-traditional settings) even the very starkly racists materials can be presented in ways that inform rather than inflame.
Of course, if you really are just looking to troll, you really should try this tack on one of the racial interest forums.
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Thu, September 20, 2007 - 2:20 PM"the thing about minstrel shows?" Like people are really still doing them?! Come on, man.
Maybe the shit you were posting just wasn't that interesting. -
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Unsu...
Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Thu, September 20, 2007 - 2:44 PMbeing someone who studies old American entertainment......
I wish there was a to pay the minstrel arts some homage.....
it really was such a big part of history...... and many of the performers were of great talent, many even black...
but then agian..... I'm a whitey who had family that did minstrel preformance (back then)....
so I'm sure I can't possibly understand the sensitivities of it all.
oh and Amy.... MANY people today feel that the whole "homey/rapper" character that is so popular today, IS a minstrel character...
so yes it is still done today.
so maybe I just answered myself? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 4:02 PMwell, I certainly see that point. In fact, taht's what the spike lee movie "Bamboozled" was about, in part.
It would be wonderful to pay homage to those performers, but man, there is an emotional disconnect there. It's hard, don't you think?
I feel like I did see a documentary about black blackface performers. probably on pbs. -
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 8:50 AMI think it would be a powerful piece. A show or skit about blackface.
You would have to narrow your promotions to a very small audience!
Hey I saw that documentaray too. Where was that?
Anyway, I have black puppets, and I get all kinds of grief. I was accused of
"bringing back slavery" by one particular break dancer. -
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 9:02 AMThe idea wasnt to troll for sport.
The idea was to spark discussion.
I think you could put on a show about minstrels. It just could not be
a minstrel show. I wonder how you would do it in the vaudeville format?
Write songs that deliver the message in verse.
Do comedy acrobatics about white blackfaced artists visiting Jook Joints and
night clubs, doing research.
Although it might be funny (to a few), to do a "white" faced minstrelshow.
I guess that would be racism also. -
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Unsu...
Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 10:12 AMwe could take white performers....
paint thier faces white....
and write songs about wonder bread and american cheese......
oh.
and tell presidential jokes.
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 3:53 PMwith the history being so recent and so painful, why go there? there's plenty of funny to go around without being hurtful.
I DO think a white minstrel show is a pretty brilliant idea. Tiny pink lips. Pancake tushies. -
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 4:47 PMThis heads off of the stage...
But I think part of the problem behind even the interpretations in "Bamboozled!" is the inability to separate the actual music and performance quality from the images and lyrics. That's something that society as a whole usually has a problem with, for good or ill.
I would pay gladly to see a minstrel show performed by period standards. I wouldn't go to see it because I am racist in any form, or because I felt a need to see someone or some 'race' denegrated, I'd go because by and large the reports I've seen of minstrel shows (and the limited samplings of music) talk of very talented performers - many black - donning blackface and the characters and performing the material that they could achieve success with. To a degree, you can still hear elements that started with this kind of thing, travelled through the Vaudeville circuits, survived the transition into modern formats and wound up in "Amos & Andy" and Jack Benny (which also shows an element of Rochester in a servant's role getting the better of his 'boss', a theme often found in most of the documented slave culture folklore and music).
Minstrel shows, good or ill, were one of the only publicly acceptable outlets for not only the stereotype of black culture that is utterly offensive but also for elements taken directly from the slave culture that was in the process of transforming into modern society. For that alone, they're worth preserving and remembering. At the very least they're powerful relics showcasing the popular mindset of the time and allowing for (to me) a fascinating way to trace the evolution of a "niche" culture as it met and was absorbed into the overall popular culture. -
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 8:55 AMYou could say. As negative as those images (blackface etc) are, they helped to humanize white America's perceptions
of Black people. The stuff that got on celluloid seems (to me) a little forced, "showy" and out of context. Some of the old Jazz
performances that have dancers in them look better. As if the musicians had a hand in what was being portrayed.
the reason the old vaudeville performers were so good is quite often an act was developed and polished, performed for a life time, and eventually handed down at least one generation.
That is a problem for me. I rehearse an act for 2 weeks and I am out there trying to show it off on stage.
Sometimes i might spend more time promoting then actually rehearsing. I hope noone else has that weakness. -
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 1:12 PMi'm not sure what you're saying, Hernan. That you underrehearse and perform substandard material? Why would you boast about that? -
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Unsu...
Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 6:07 PMHerman... I understand what you are saying....
The Vauldevillians would do the same act for years and years and years ...... it was their "expected act".
It seems to be one of the many components that killed valdeville.
I myself, often produce, direct, market, write.... yada.... yada....yada.....
I certainly have not rehearsed bits the way the masters did... nor do I get to perform them show after show......
boy I'd be great if I could (tee hee)...
I did used to work on a train where we had two dinner cars, so you could try something in one car then do it differently, if you didn't like the responce. Great way to build one's chops.
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 1:11 PMYou mean people throw out the baby (great performances and music and great rhymes) with the bathwater (thuggish stereotypes)? I think that's true, sure.
Look, I'd like to see a minstrel show performed by period standards too. But I'd be uncomfortable watching it. I mean, I feel oogy watching Josephine Baker -- that grin, those bananas -- even though she's an absolute gem. -
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Re: racsist vaudeville bit
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 5:45 PMYeah my understanding is that acts were handed down.
My act might be bits and pieces that I have worked on for a while then gelled into an act.
But these guys had no TV no Ipods. They basically were showmen 24-7.
the closest I have seen to that is the circus world. Serious circus world. Musical act's too I guess.
Oh boy I am going to be in hot water again.
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